Supper Club × Digital Nomad with Eric Sartorius

I sure hope you're hungry.

Oh, I'm starving.

Wash those hands, pull up a chair, and secure that feed bag, because it's time to listen to Scott Tolinski and Wes Bos attempt to use human language to converse with and pick the brains of other developers. I thought there was gonna be food, so buckle up and grab that old handle because this ride is going to get wild.

This is the syntax supper club.

Welcome to Syntax.

In today's supper club, we have a really good one. Besides being a member of the world famous Robo Tops B Boy crew.

We have Eric Sartorius who has traveled the world as a developer. He mentors new devs All while working full time and freelancing.

Not only that, but his code is also all over the LevelUp Tutorials code base Says he's been helping me work on this thing for a long time.

Welcome to the show, Eric Sartorius. Eric, what's up, man? Going on? Yeah. Hopefully, the code that's All over your code base is good code. Not bad. But Yeah. I mean, you would be surprised at how many times I look at, the get blame, And it's, Scott Lewinsky is to blame. So, there's there's not too many times where I'm like, what's going on here? For those who don't, You know, have never heard of Eric. I I've known Eric, I don't know, for, like, since, like, 2006, maybe, a a very long time.

We've been a part of the same dance crew forever. We've entered competitions all over, and, and we've we've been coding together.

So, Eric, do you wanna talk a little bit about, you know, who you are, what you do for your job currently, and, you know, a little bit about your journey into development? So, yeah, Right now, I

own a agency, as you said, web development agency, called PureFunk.

That's with a c, not a k. Keeping it funky.

But, yeah, I've been coding for, like, oh gosh, 9 years now. And at the beginning of my journey, I started because I wanted to travel.

And then it got me into, like, digital nomading and traveling all over for, like, years.

I almost feel like I'm fresh off the boat now. Like, back in the states, I haven't been here for, like, so long. I think I was gone 15 years total. But, yeah. Right now, I just keep,

coding and traveling and, like, it's just what I do, who I am. Yeah. For as long as I've known you, you have been Somewhere, whether it's, you teaching in Japan for a couple of years or, I don't know, quite a while, actually, you're almost never around. And then when you were around, we we'd get to enter some some battles together here or there or whatever.

So so Where have you you traveled? Can you list, like, all of the places you traveled, or is there too many? I mean, it might be quicker to list where I haven't traveled,

But let me see here. So I've probably been close to around 40 countries.

Only continent that I haven't hit so far is Antarctica, But, hoping to put that on the map as well.

So, yeah, I've been around. That's awesome. Antarctica, is that something that you would actually do? Oh, yeah. For sure. So I actually there's the highest, mountain in Antarctica right now is, Mount Vinson, and I really wanna climb it after we can get into this later, but I climbed Kilimanjaro recently, and I need another, like, big one to hit. You know? The only problem is is, like, I looked up the cost to do that with the Lights over there and, like, the tours and everything. It's, like, close to 50 k. We're looking at US dollars. So Oh my god. Have to, get a GoFundMe Mommy started or something to do that. Get some sponsors. That's incredible,

man. I, it's we can talk about the Kilimanjaro thing in a bit because I wanna, like, get into, like, even some of your mindset for some of that stuff, but I don't even know you. I I mean, I talk to you all the time, and I don't even know you were doing that until you're like, yeah. I'm heading to climb count Mount Kilimanjaro. I was just like, wait. What? What are you doing? Because you're you're not, like, even a mountain climbing. I guess you are now a mountain climber considering you've climbed that, but was I'm the mountain. Okay. Well, yeah, let let's talk about Kilimanjaro in a bit. We can talk about your history with mountains and stuff.

Okay. So You travel a lot. You've traveled for both work and just for fun. I guess one of the things that I would I'd really like to to get out of you in this Conversation is, like, really understanding, some of the the tips that you might have for people in terms of, like, being able to travel while having a job. So I guess, 1st and foremost, have you found it to be challenging at all working across time zones, and maybe even cross body Wi Fi connections while managing to work. Oh, definitely. There's always challenges.

So, like, right now, I should say, one of the companies I'm working for, called Stream. They're based out of Amsterdam, and they have employees all over the world right now.

The main chunk of people that I work with right now is either in Brazil or US, but there's also some employees that, I have meetings with, over in Amsterdam and Europe, Portugal.

I think one of the main things that you just have to keep in mind when working in different time zones is that you you have to be flexible. Right? Like, there are sometimes where I'm working late at night.

I have a lot of, you know, 7, 6 AM meetings.

You know, even outside of what I'm doing now, I've had meetings in the past with clients where I've, you know, I've been in Mauritius, and it's 4 AM, and I have a daily stand up every day. It's just kinda some of the trade offs with being able to travel. You know? Like, if I if I look at it some other way, you know, I think I'd rather Get up early or stay up late here and there just to, you know, communicate now and then with people as opposed to always be in the same time zone and never be able to leave my house.

Yeah. That's wild.

So, like like, where are you are you working? Because I always think about this a lot is that even when I'm, like, traveling, I don't I feel like I don't I'm not as productive. And, like, do you do you get a desk in every city that you're working? You go to co working? Do you have, like, a a daily routine, or are you are you simply just, like, Slinging your laptop and sitting on a rock and banging out some code and then and then, like, grabbing your big bag is kind of what I About digital nomads, they have these huge backpacks, and then they you can't hear from them in in 2 weeks, and then before you know it, you're on a Zoom call on the back of a coal train across Saudi Arabia or something like that.

I have yet to do that one. I'm gonna have to try that. A gold train cross.

I've oh, hold on. Have you seen the, I think it's Shay. There's a YouTuber that, like, Does like, he goes into trains and stuff like that, and he crosses all these crazy

train hopping videos. It's a wild wash if you ever get into that. I have not heard of that. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't tried that one yet. So yeah. So what where do you work? Do you do you pop into coffee shops, or or what's Your what's your main strategy if you're like, I need to be productive today? What do you what do you do? So it depends on the country, really.

One good example is, like, Korea. I was there well, I lived there for 6 years.

But then on and off Outside of that, like, I I should back up and start saying before I even digital did the digital nomad thing and before I did coding, I got my 1st glimpse into living overseas as a English teacher.

I was there 5 years in Japan teaching English and then, the same amount of time over in Korea teaching English. But Weren't you briefly a male model as well in in Japan? Oh, dude. I did everything. Yeah. I did some modeling. I did some product modeling, some runway shows. Yeah, dude. Oh my god. The stuff you can get over into over there is pretty fun.

But so, yeah, it depends on country.

Korea, like I was saying, the Wi Fi is, like, Everywhere there, it's phenomenal, 100% coverage. And, like, every cafe is open, like, 24 hours and has great Wi Fi. And there's just so many cafes. It's a huge cafe culture. So what I would end up doing there is, every day, I would rotate a different cafe.

And I just think of it as, like, the price of a coffee or 2 depending, you know, how long I stay. Is it much cheaper than if I was paying for, you know, a private office or something like that? But then again, it also depends on your budget. Right? Like, when I first started coding and did the traveling around, I was on a shoestring budget.

Had, like, no money.

I was staying at people's houses and working from their kitchen tables most of the time.

So, like, that's another one working at kitchen tables, making sure, you know, if I'm at a Airbnb that they have a desk or some resemblance of it.

But then there's other countries, like so this might be surprising, but Japan, when I was over there working, a lot of times, their cafes don't have Wi Fi.

And I found it difficult to work there, and so I'd have to work from, like, home a lot more than Korea, for example.

So So do you how where do you go to research this type of thing? Like like, how are you gonna find out? Are you the type that just goes and figures it out? Or you do you have, like, Places that you you research and look into finding what are the best locations to live and work from in these areas.

So the way I research and work at places now, I'll have to say, is different than before pre pandemic.

So pre pandemic, I, was basically, for a 4 year stint, just lived out of a suitcase. Right. So everything I owned was in that suitcase. If I wanted to buy a new t shirt, I'd have to pick something in the suitcase to throw out because I was at the limit. Right? So at that time, every 3 months was usually, like, the limit for a holiday visa for, American In most countries I went to, so every 3 months, I had to start planning where am I going next at the same time as, like, what am I doing now? And a lot of times, it was based on my current location because I would get a lot of one way flights.

And if I just found a cheap ticket somewhere that I had never been, I just Book that first, and then start thinking about, like, accommodations and Wi Fi and all that later.

Yeah. Whereas now, I have a base now. I've I've bought a house during the pandemic, because there's just nothing else to do.

No. Every like, every other month, I'm I'm flying out somewhere, but my trips are only, like, a month long. And I I put more planning effort into, like, If there's actual place to, work or not because I have a little bit more budget now compared to, you know, when I first started out too. Dude, I remember, like, one time you were like, yeah. I'm gonna Medellin,

Colombia for a little bit. I was like, okay. And then you're like, yeah. I'm gonna go to Germany for a little bit. Oh, okay.

Like, when I first found out you were, like, just bouncing all around, it was, like, really pretty wild to me. And then as I got, You know, to work with you longer and longer, it was just like, okay. I it doesn't even matter where he is today. I have no idea where he is today. It doesn't matter, because we'll we'll you know, we'll connect at some point on on asynchronous chat or whatever if we have anything to to share.

But, yeah, it's it's always really shocking to me that you were able to, like, get to these places and be able to be still so productive. I was just gonna say, yeah. It's not for everyone. You have to be able to make yourself productive. And a lot of people, they have routines based on their environment.

Like, the wake up every morning, go down, you know, get a cup of coffee, whatever. I had to make routines that were based on Solely myself or my mental state. Right? So no matter what country I'm in, no matter what hotel I'm in, or wherever, I would do the exact Same, like, morning mobility stretch routine, and, like, it just gets me in the mindset to start work.

And I don't have that commute to reset me. But having that as, like, a or stabilization definitely

helps in working from anywhere in any time zone. That's awesome. So, sir, did you say this already? Where are you right now? Right now, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Oh, very exotic. Wow.

Yeah. At one point, he was living in in Denver here with us, and then, when he moved out, I got a couple of new pieces of exercise gear from Eric's apartment that he couldn't take With Ivana's

next adventure. Yeah. Like Scott said, I was in Denver for 6 months, while I was still part of my huge world tour.

And, I just buy enough in a studio apartment to, like, be able to sell and last me. So when I lived there, I just had 1 mattress, 1 pull up bar, 1 kettlebell and some puzzle mats on the floor. And I basically rebuy that stuff every time I live somewhere longer than 3 months because it's the same things that I use every single time. I use that kettle bar kettle kettle bell still,

all the time. You use it all the time. You think about it. This is yeah. It's getting a lot of use still. When you, apply for a job and you're, like, talking to an interviewer And maybe let's say a positions remote. Right? Or at least you're you're advocating for remote work in it. Is this something that you tell them that like, Hey. I'm gonna be traveling, or I would like to travel all the all around, but I I'm still productive. I've been doing this for x amount of time, or is this something that you, like, wait until you're Hired.

And then, try to negotiate that way.

So, yeah, there's a lot of, like, Reddit threads and stuff around this Particular subject.

It's pretty interesting.

If you think about it this way, at least from a, you know, US citizen point of view, If I was to apply for a new full time job and get one, mostly because of, like, tax and stuff like that, insurance and whatnot. They don't want you to work anywhere other than the current state you're in or the current country you're in.

You might be able to get away with traveling to other countries and working for, you know, a week or two here and there, but if you're too long in another place, they don't usually let you do it. So there's Some people that'll just pretend like they're working in 1 place, put their background in as one of those, you know, Zoom backgrounds. Yeah. And it's all blurred out, And they'll just work from different people, and try and get away from it or get away with it, but they sometimes get caught and fired and whatnot.

But for me, personally, I usually, when I look for work, is contracts that are done through my company, PureFunc.

And so then my company decides, you know, where I can and can't work from, and the money's all coming into the same place. It's a little bit different that way when you're working with, contract work.

Yeah. So when I was traveling full time, it was all contracts work. Ain't that, like, expensive,

to always be out on the road, or is is that just like your your methodology in life is like, I just need a kettlebell and a puzzle mat and, you know, on the open road.

Yeah. So I feel like there's different levels to digital nomading that a lot of people don't understand. There's there's different ways to do it. Right? One of the unfortunate things with, like, the boom in things like Instagram and things like that is you only really see, like, really high quality, You know, if you follow a digital nomad person, really high quality images and things of them, like, working in some glorious location, you know, like, on top of a mountain.

And, like, in all honesty, I used to kind of fall into that a little bit, before. I don't anymore as much. But I would, like, just log a computer to the top of a mountain and take a selfie to make it look like I work there, but there is no Wi Fi. There's no layer on the screen. I can't see a damn thing.

So, Yeah. Like, it's yeah. It isn't what it seems to some expect, but, yeah, it depends on what kind of digital nomad you are, though. Right? Like, if you're making a ton of money, you're just gonna go around and work in different, you know, working spaces, and you're gonna have a high budget. You're gonna take, you know, maybe business class, planes, whatever. But when I first started out, I think my 1st contract was, like, $25 an hour.

I went overseas and started working, and then after 2 months, the contract got canceled, and I was forced to basically spend no money until I got my next contract, which ended up being a year later, which is pretty crazy. I started digging in savings. But that year, I meticulously counted, like, every penny I spent, and It was about 10,000 US dollars for the span of 1 year that I spent, and I still went to, like, probably 10 different countries.

So Jeez.

It's possible that easy efficient.

That's so efficient. What what's the most expensive thing Typically, when traveling, like, if there's 1 thing that costs more besides, like, the the cost of travel itself, like, what is the one thing in your day to day that ends up being The thing you gotta worry about the most. It really depends on country,

because over in, like, Southeast Asia, for example, food is So cheap. You can eat for, like, $5 a day. Right? So food doesn't become a problem there.

You can same with, like, you know, hospital bills, Whatever. You get hurt. It's pretty cheap. But you get over to, like, the US or Europe, that can be a bit more expensive, so you have to start Changing the way you eat. You have to start making food instead of just buying out. Right? Transportation usually is my biggest cost, I think overall, but or, actually, accommodation these days, things have shifted a lot, because I can find some pretty cheap flights And use, like, credit card points to book them and stuff. But, yeah, now, like so when I first started doing the digital nomad thing, Airbnbs were super cheap if you got them for a month. Right? I got 40% discount sometimes.

Like, I'll go back to I was talking about Mauritius before, which for those of you who don't know, it's a little island between the coast of, like, Madagascar and Maldives around that area. I've never heard of that before.